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If I support Trump, am I a closet Racist?
in Politics

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Arguments

  • @joecavalry , I agree with you
    Live Long and Prosper
  • It is curious, that even in Syria, those whom Trump is supposedly helping, are hesitant due to what they percieve as his racist remarks,  it's tought to argue about many of his supporters at a minimum tolerating Trump's racist inclinations 
    WhyTrump - a good question
  • @WhyTrump ; What are "Trump's racist inclinations"?
  • Well @CYDdharta , his immigration ban is widely perceived as Muslim ban for one.  He made many comments about blacks and Mexicans that many take as varying degree of racism . 
    Nytimes had a good article
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/05/01/opinion/campaign-stops/the-upside-to-overt-racism.amp.html
    WhyTrump - a good question
  • @WhyTrump ; The New York Times article is a good example of race-baiting rhetoric, but it isn't good for much else; in fact there are NO examples of Trump's "racism" anywhere in the article. 
  • @WhyTrump ; Muslim isn't a race (its a religion), neither is Mexican (its a nationality).  Black is the only thing that approximates a race, and Trump didn't say anything about them that black cultural leaders haven't been saying for decades.  Is Al Sharpton a racist?  Jessie Jackson?
    love2debate
  • I agree with CYDharta. Discrimination against Muslim or Mexicans (even if we admit that Trump discriminated against them, which he didnt) will not be considered racism. Maybe prejudice.
  • VaulkVaulk 480 Pts
    @kakakksa_1911 , So let's start here:
    Trump supporters want to ban muslims and Mexicans due to stereotypes. That's racist.
    Alright, let's break it down.

    1.  Muslim is not a race. 
    Muslim has never been a race, most likely never will be a race. To say that a stereotype of a "Religion" can be "Racist" is to suggest that all people of a particular religion are of one Race.  So, you've suggested that it's possible to be Racist against Muslims so I counter with "What Race are Muslims"?

    2.  Mexican is not a race.
    Mexican is a term that defines human beings who currently hold citizenship in Mexico.  To say that a stereotype of a "Citizenship" can be "Racist" is to suggest that all people of a particular Nationality are of one Race.  You've suggested that it's possible to be racist against Mexicans, so I counter with "What Race are Mexicans"?

    I look forward to your response.

    @ale5 ,

    ale5 said:
    All of you Trump supporters who say that You are not racists: lets be honest, it is clearly targeting muslims. Maybe it makes you feel better about yourselves that you are not racists, but if you turn off the lights and no one is watching, you can admit it to yourself. I believe bulk of Trump supporters are in fact racists whether they admit it or not publically to themselves. Just being honest...
    I respect your opinion on this matter however, I can't get behind your logic.  What does Religion have to do with Race?  I'm no scholar here but I can logically deduce the following:

    1.  A racist is: A person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.
    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/racist

    2.  Since a Muslims is a person who practices Islam in some way, shape or form...then in order to be considered a Racist for targeting Muslims then all Muslims must be one Race.

    See the issue here?  Calling something "Racist" when it's not even possible that it could be slightly Racist is the problem.  The mainstream media has been feeding this stuff to people for so long that a good portion of our American Citizens have started buying into it.  Calling people Nazis for disliking something that's cultural, calling people Racist for not being accepting of a person's religion or ideas...these are becoming normal things in our society.

    ~~~~This is not Racism~~~~ and any attempt to shrug it off like it's no big deal to improperly label something one of the worst terms in history is how most people respond:

    "Oh well so it's not "Technically" racist but it's definitely not nice". ~ This is how people defend themselves for improperly calling someone a "Racist".  Would you use the word "Genocide" to describe a single murder?  Would you use the word "Furious" to describe someone who was "Annoyed" with something you said?  Of course not...but for some reason it's perfectly acceptable and defensible to call someone a "Racist" when their attitude is bias at best and has nothing to do with Race.



    agsrale5islander507
    "If there's no such thing as a stupid question then what kind of questions do stupid people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".


  • @Vaulk, that is a great expanation. Video is also a great supporting source.
    You articulated the point so well. That is a common misconception , that is simply incorrect.
    Live Long and Prosper
  • edited May 2017
    @Vaulk, although I am still strongly against what Trump is doing regarding foreigners, I have to say that I now have a different perspective after reviewing your argument. I now understand that we shouldn't say that Trump supporters are racists.  I get your point about latinos and Muslims not being a race. That is not accurate.  So I concede.  I also just signed up for the Premium membership to support DebateIsland, and you get my very first persuaded badge.  Great debate! Very impressive.
    It's kind of fun to do the impossible
    - Walt Disney
  • VaulkVaulk 480 Pts
    @ale5, I honestly can't express how much we need more people like you, the mainstream media is mostly to blame for the misnomers flying around today.  It's so easy to get behind "That's Racist" because the word is so serious, it's a huge deal to be labeled a Racist and it can really damage your image.  I hope to see a movement in the future that will hold the media accountable for using "Racism" and "Racist" as labels when there's clearly no evidence of either.

    I don't like Trump, everyone can agree that he's...not a very well spoken individual and most likely engages his Mouth long before he engages his brain.  Is he harsh, yes.  Is he abrasive, yep.  Is he inappropriate, you bet.  Racist though...no I'm afraid not.
    melanielustislander507
    "If there's no such thing as a stupid question then what kind of questions do stupid people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".


  • LogicLogic 236 Pts
    In some cases yes, In some no.    Some people follow him for the banning of muslims, and so on so forth, Some follow him because he  is a great business man, economy fixing, etc. But truly, this year had no good candidates.  One psycho woman, A liar, A racist. We can go on all day i suppose. 
  • VaulkVaulk 480 Pts
    @Logic,

    Read above, we somewhat squashed the "Racist" thing.
    islander507
    "If there's no such thing as a stupid question then what kind of questions do stupid people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".


  • LogicLogic 236 Pts
    @Vaulk  When was the last time the KKK had a rally before tump?  They got lots more active after trump came along, And they support him.
  • VaulkVaulk 480 Pts
    edited May 2017
    @Logic,

    I'm not sure about the KKK's rally calendar but I also don't see any relevance of their Rally dates to the Presidential election.  Granted the KKK could easily be upping their Rallies but to suggest that a group's organized meetings are a direct result of the election of a U.S. President will require much more evidence than the existence of activity in a particular group.

    I haven't personally seen any evidence of Racism from our current President and would challenge any and all contrary opinion holders to bring forth said evidence.
    agsr
    "If there's no such thing as a stupid question then what kind of questions do stupid people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".


  • As @Vaulk said, just because KKK support Trump, that is not evidence of him being a racist.  He also made an amazing argument that discrimination against muslims and latinos is not racism either (even if proven).  @Logic, I would say innocent until proven guilty as far as Racism.
    Vaulk
    Live Long and Prosper
  • LogicLogic 236 Pts
    @Vaulk  I'm a muslim, and trump banned some dangerous countries, And i'm totally fine with that. What i'm NOT at all fine with, is the fact tthat he banned some of tthe least dangerous countries, AND LEFT SAUDI ARABIA.  Trump is cutting off ties withy any country that can't bring in business.  He kept the most country that has brought terrorists, and left the ones that had none or a few.
    melanielust
  • VaulkVaulk 480 Pts
    edited May 2017
    @Logic, I understand your point.  Again though, how is that racist?  If you're admitting openly that Trump is allowing some Muslims in but not others and the some he is letting in are from more dangerous places with more extremists than the ones he's keeping out...then you're essentially saying that this has nothing to do with Race and instead it's politically motivated...which wouldn't be an issue of racism.
    "If there's no such thing as a stupid question then what kind of questions do stupid people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".


  • @Vaulk I agree - I don't like Trump's ban, but it wasn't on a race or a religion, it was on countries, so that doesn't make the action racist. And if someone supports it, it doesn't make them racist.

    Ultimately, no one is racist unless they truly believe a group to be inferior. That has nothing to do with their political affiliation, or whether you support or at against certain political actions.
    VaulkSuperSith89
  • @Vaulk, excellent point regarding racist needed to be a race specific term.
  • Dinahj245 said: i think its not racist because at the end of the day ppl have their own opinions about everyone and its not only racist if u think of that person as a outsider alps we are all ppl 
  • @ale5 I am fine with Muslims being here, but not when they force sharia law on us and bring ISIS in.  Protectionism is the right word, not racism.
  • @SuperSith89, agreed.  Just to point out that @Vaulk really did a great job to explain in this debate that it's not racism, and that's word is often misused
    Live Long and Prosper
  • @agsr  Yeah I didn't see that before posting.  He's a very good debater.  
  • edited July 2017
    Religion is culture, and culture can't be tied to race (as anyone can adopt culture), so Trump being racist for attacking an aspect of culture is just irritating.

    And as for the Mexicans deal, that "stereotype" is factually supported around half of our illegal immigration rate.

    "They made up half of all unauthorized immigrants in 2016, according to the Center’s preliminary estimate, marking the first time in at least a decade that they did not account for a clear majority of this population."  http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/04/27/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/ ;

    The article does mention a drop, but at one point the accounted for the majority! Now they're around an even split, congrats for those stellar drop rates border control.
    (By the way the rest come from the continent of Eurasia, not one country but a continent!, which makes it harder to pinpoint and eradicate the problem.)

    Look @ale5, illegal immigration is a huge problem with the potential to become an even bigger pain in our asses, and when half of  all the illegal immigrants come from one country, that's an indication of where the biggest problem lies.

    It's not a stereotype it's a fact, your friendly neighborhood abuelita, is also a national cross country master.
    CuriousGeorgeSilverishGoldNova
  • @ale5 Islam is not a race. Also it's not a full on immigration ban or "muslim ban".
    Retired DebateIslander, Former Earth Science Community Moderator, and ex-Flat Earther. 
  • ale5 said:
    @Vaulk, although I am still strongly against what Trump is doing regarding foreigners, I have to say that I now have a different perspective after reviewing your argument. I now understand that we shouldn't say that Trump supporters are racists.  I get your point about latinos and Muslims not being a race. That is not accurate.  So I concede.  I also just signed up for the Premium membership to support DebateIsland, and you get my very first persuaded badge.  Great debate! Very impressive.
    @SilverishGoldNova, I already conceded that point as per @Vaulk's argument.
    It's kind of fun to do the impossible
    - Walt Disney
  • @love2debate

    Coming from a Liberal-Democrat, I don't believe that Trump supporters are racist (at least not all of them).
  • Ban Mexicans? No. Ban illegals? Yes. Trump does not want to deport all Mexicans, he said he wants to deport illegal Mexicans because they are sending "rapists and drugs". Studies have shown that approximatly 80% of Central American women that cross the boarder from Mexico to USA get raped. 80%. Also its a well known fact that the illegal drug trade as ties back to Mexico. He never said he wanted to fully ban Mexicans so that's wrong. He put on a partial "Muslim Ban" which isn't really a Muslim ban because he didn't block out many countries that have a majority of Muslims. Obama had the same Muslim ban when he was in office and no one gave him crap, why the double standard? Also being Muslim means you practice the ways of Islam so it's a religion. You can't be racist against a religion. @thecomeotitor_19391
  • Trump supporters want to ban muslims and Mexicans due to stereotypes. That's racist.
    Muslims are not a race and so are Mexicans.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

    "We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." ~Gene Roddenberry


  • Simply because you want to secure the border and put Americans first doesn't make you a racist. Sorry Liberals.
  • @inc4t First off, When you talk about the travel ban you need to realize that in order for the government to protect the citizens of the United States it is necessary to take zero risks in regard to importing people from places that have been known to produce terrorists. Just take a look at Europe. Many of their nations have accepted vast numbers of refugees into their borders which has resulted in a rapid spike in Islamic Terror attacks and Sweden has become the rape capital of the Western World. It's certainly prudent to halt the entrance of refugees until we come up with a way to reliably put these people through a vetting process to ensure that we don't let in a large number of people that want to tear our civilization apart.
  • VaulkVaulk 480 Pts
    edited September 2017
    @George_Horse

    Alright, I'll bite, so your logic is that because Trump supporters want to ban Muslims and Mexicans because of stereotypes...then that's racist.

    So then I have to ask you George, since being racist requires that you discriminate against a race of people...what Race are all Muslims? 

    Secondly, what race are all Mexicans?

    I'm curious to see you answer these questions without retracting your statement in the least.


    "If there's no such thing as a stupid question then what kind of questions do stupid people ask"?

    "There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".

    "Oh, you don't like my sarcasm?  Well I don't much appreciate your stupid".


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